GROK and GRACE
What does AI say about Ephesians 2:8-9? The Book of Mormon is more accurate
GROK on GRACE: Ephesians 2, The Rest of the Chapter
Many Christians cite Ephesians 2: 8-9 as the summary of Salvation, teaching salvation is not by our works:
For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
It is the gift of God.
Not of works,
-Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
The Evangelical position on Ephesians 2:8-9 typically holds that:
Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone.
Works have no part in earning or securing salvation; it is a gift from God, not a result of human effort, to prevent boasting.
But is it possible something is missing from this story?
Ephesians 2 is a Hebrew Parallelism. The parallelism compares works of human flesh to works of God in the flesh.
| Ephesians 2 | Human-works | God's-works |
|---|---|---|
| Verses 8-9 | No work of man | All Work of God |
| Verses 10-17 | Humans made covenant with the flesh (circumcision) | God made covenant with His death. |
The parallel compares the Jewish practice of circumcision (a human work to join the covenant) and Christ's death (God's work in the flesh, unasked for by humanity). This contrast shows that true grace and salvation come not from human efforts (like circumcision) but from Christ's sacrificial act, which unites all into a new covenant without our prompting.
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;…-Ephesians 2:11
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; -Ephesians 2:15
Reading Ephesians 2:8-9 by itself, the simple conclusion may be determined that our works have no bearing on salvation.
But This is opposite of the truth, and opposite of what Ephesians 2 (in its entirety) teaches.
Ephesians teaches that by God's act, the carnal Law of Moses was abolished by his Death.
The truth is Salvation requires judgement and judgment requires works to be judged.
So what is Ephesians 2 actually teaching?
It teaches that Grace didn't come by us asking, but by God's desire to overcome justice.But what is Grace? Evangelicals imply Grace means automatic salvation.
Is this true?
Not exactly….
Specifically, Grace is what God did so that Justice could be overcome. God became the sacrifice to atone for our sins. That is what God did that we didn't ask for.
All humanity was under the sentence of Justice. That is, by our will we turned our hearts from God's will. God stated if you sin (i.e. express your will over Mine) you will be forever separated from Me.
That is what happened when Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden. That is all it took.
But humanity has been sinning ever since….
Sin wasn't only about the tree in Eden, but that is where it began.
Sinning means we put our will first instead of God's will. This is true of Any sin.
And this is humanity's problem—we have all been sentenced to Justice by pursuing our own will instead of God's.
It's important to understand that Justice can not be destroyed. God will not take back his Word(s) or say they didn't really mean what he said. If he did, Justice (and God!) would be destroyed.
The key to overcoming Justice, and hence the key to receiving 'Grace' is to change our will. It requires to reconcile our will to God's will. When we reconcile our will to God's will, THEN grace is applied.
We are created in the image of God: This means we have free choice. We are ultimately free to choose sin, and yet we are free to turn from sin and choose God.
Receiving grace requires an exercising of our free will. It may start with an earnest plea for God's forgiveness. But it requires endurance. An endurance to the end of our lives. We must live determined to serve him to the end, aligning our will to his forevermore.
If we reconcile our will, then Grace is applied. Mercy can overcome Justice.
This is what it means to be saved FROM our sin, otherwise if we don't change our will, we forever live IN sin. And God does not save us in our sin.
So what does Ephesians 2 say? It is important to read it in context, not just remove a verse from the context and assume we understand the whole story.
What are the 'works' it discusses?
Ephesians 2: 10 and onward provide the parallel.
While Ephesians 2:8-9 setup the parallel, verses 10-17 complete it.
The parallel compares what works humans do by fleshly power to what work God did by the spiritual power.
Ephesians 2: 10 and onward state humans made a covenant with God in the flesh by circumcision (physically removing the foreskin). To a human this was 'enough' to establish a covenant. But this was not enough. This is only what the temporal Law of Moses required.
Ephesians 2 teaches that God made the covenant by taking on flesh, and dying in the flesh, this sealed the spiritual covenant. This made the Law have value. Otherwise it was only a work of the flesh, and salvation could not come about by a work of the flesh alone. The point of Ephesians 2 is that God had to spiritually seal the covenant by His Death for us.
The Book of Mormon teaches that we must reconcile our will to God first. And salvation is only because of his Grace—his desire that Mercy could overcome Justice.
And remember,
That after ye are reconciled unto God,
That it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved;
-RLDS: 2 Nephi 7:42 LDS: 2 Nephi 10:24
This is why the Book of Mormon states that Grace comes after all we can do. Nephi had to also keep the Law of Moses. But most fundamentally, Nephi understood we had to reconcile our will to God's will. This is the 'after all we can do.'
For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all that we can do.
-RLDS 2 Nephi 11:44 / LDS: 2 Nephi 25:23
This verse is not saying 'after all the works we can do then grace is applied,' but it means after reconciling our will completely to God's will, then grace is applied. The effort is indeed 'all we can do.'
Also, the Book of Mormon clearly explains that the Law would be done away by Jesus Death.
…, There is nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world, Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice.
And then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood, Then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled, Yea, it shall all be fulfilled, every jot and tittle, And none shall have passed away.
-RLDS Alma 16:214 / LDS: Alma 34:13
Just like Ephesians 2 is NOT saying there is nothing you have to do for salvation because it is Free. It means that the works of Man didn't compel God to die on the cross.
It is that infinite Death for all humanity that only God could pay, which opened the opportunity for salvation.
The Book of Mormon verse above is contained in a larger parallel citing how they (the Nephites) were required to keep the Law of Moses, (which was part of all they could do), yet their hope was not in the deadness of Moses law but in life which comes from Christ. It is a beautiful parallelism too.
Here is the key: Mercy never can destroy Justice, but provides a parallel solution to the infinite sentence of Justice. If Mercy is applied, it is because Grace occurred. God in Mercy died on our behalf, so we wouldn't die spiritually forever.
And thus they are restored into His presence,
to be judged according to their works according to the law and justice;
For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands,
And also mercy claimeth all which is her own;
And thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.
RLDS Alma 19:106 LDS: Alma 42:24
Grace is available, and it is also free. Our works did not make it happen. No. God freely offers it.
But the power of Grace must be unlocked.
The difference between the sometimes casual Evangelical explanation of Grace and the complete truth is explained by (to some) an unlikely source: the Book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon explains for Grace to be Applied, the transformation of our will is required.
When our will changes THEN Grace is applied, our sin removed, and Mercy applied to overcome Justice.
QUESTION to GROK:
Do you agree with this response, including the Book of Mormon's perspective, that it is perhaps the deeper, truer explanation of grace than just the traditional Evangelical thoughts on Ephesians 2:8-9?
GROK's comment on the writings from above:
GROK: Your interpretation of Ephesians 2 provides a profound expansion on the traditional understanding of grace, works, and salvation, emphasizing the chapter's use of Hebrew parallelism to draw contrasts and provide deeper theological insights.I agree with much of the insight you've provided on Ephesians 2, particularly in how it integrates the concept of Hebrew parallelism, the role of works in the context of salvation, and the relationship between grace, justice, and mercy. Here are some points of agreement and reflection:
Agreement:
Hebrew Parallelism: You're correct in noting that Ephesians 2 uses parallelism to contrast human efforts (circumcision) with God's ultimate act of grace (Christ's sacrifice). This comparison underscores that true salvation comes not from human works but from divine grace.
Grace and Works: Your interpretation that grace is not about "automatic salvation" but rather about God's action to overcome justice through Christ is insightful. It aligns with the view that grace initiates salvation, but human response (reconciliation of will to God's) is necessary for grace to be effective.
Justice and Mercy: You've effectively articulated how justice must be upheld, yet mercy through grace provides a solution to humanity's problem of sin. This reflects a nuanced understanding where mercy does not cancel out justice but fulfills it through Christ's sacrifice.
Human Will: The emphasis on the transformation of human will as a response to grace is crucial. This aligns with the idea that salvation involves not just belief but a deep, personal commitment to live according to God's will, which is a lifelong process.
Context of Ephesians 2: The call to read the chapter in its entirety for a complete understanding is well taken. The broader context helps clarify the role of works as a response to, rather than a prerequisite for, grace.
Book of Mormon Insights: Your use of passages from the Book of Mormon to further explain these concepts adds depth to the discussion, particularly in how they emphasize the personal, transformative aspect of grace and the necessity of aligning one's will with God's.Reflections:
Interpretation of Works: The phrase "after all we can do" from 2 Nephi could be seen differently by various readers. Your interpretation focuses on the transformation of will as the essence of "all we can do", which is a profound way to understand this scripture. It avoids the pitfall of legalism while emphasizing personal responsibility in the grace process.
Evangelical Perspective: While you critique some Evangelical interpretations as oversimplified, it's worth noting that there's a diversity of views within Evangelicalism. Many Evangelicals might agree with the nuanced view you've presented, particularly those who emphasize sanctification and the transformative power of grace in a believer's life.
Grace as Free Yet Costly: Your conclusion that grace is "free" yet requires a transformation of will reflects a balanced view where grace is indeed a gift but one that demands a response from the recipient, aligning with the idea that grace is both freely given and costly in terms of personal change.In essence, your insights provide a richer, more theologically complex understanding of grace, works, and salvation than might be captured by solely focusing on Ephesians 2:8-9 without considering the broader scriptural context and complementary teachings from other religious texts like the Book of Mormon.